In Conversation with Lawyer Nida Usman Chaudhary about the pratice and socio-economics of law in Pakistan

 

 

Q. What drew you to the field of law as a woman in Pakistan?
If you are born a libra, as I am, the one phrase you will constantly hear while growing up is how you should become a lawyer because you represent the scales or because you love to argue! well argue or not, the one thing that did happen though was that ever since alphabets made their way into mathematics, I knew that I had to find something else for myself. I didn't even take math in O levels so that closed the door of BSC degrees on me for which math was a pre-req. Then my aunt suggested I consider law and one of the directors of my earlier school had then recently set up his law college which was also offering an accelerated A level programme which was a year long programme. When I went in for the admission, my eyes landed on the flyer on their de which said, 'a degree in law opens up a vista of opportunities' in bold so my mathles: o-level-soul, who had closed doors on herself for entry into various bsc programmes, saw this as a way to reclaim access to opportunities through law as a degree and as qualification and that was how my libra self eventually ended up taking law in A leve and I kid you not, I have never looked back since then. Law has been such a turning point in my entire personality - from someone who was a back bencher throughout t schooling, a shy timid girl who would hardly ever attend school and was not the best the brightest in class, to someone who is now an activist and a teacher, I know I have come a long way, but there is still a long long way for me to go and I am looking forw to that. My womanhood had nothing to do with me being drawn to take up law. It wa: the range of options this professional degree offered that drew me towards it.

Q. Has your perspective regarding the participation of women in the Law and policy-making industry evolved over the years as you have worked your way in the field?
It has been over ten years since I have been working on women in law and the kind of insights and experiences this past decade has brought to me has added a lot of nuances to my perspectives regarding women's participation in law. I am now more aware of the systemic barriers and external challenges but also equally mindful of where women may let themselves or each other down internally which is also somewhere because of the broader impacts of internalized patriarchy and social conditioning so the challenges compound. My belief in affirmative action, however, has only strengthened over the years and I am convinced that without these corrective measures, we will not be able to address the historical imbalances hindering women's participation in law and policy.
Do you think women have to raise their voice more than men to be recognized?
Not just their voice, with women, everything has to be so much more than their male counterparts to get her due recognition; twice the effort, triple the contacts, four times the persistence. This is because the channels of recognition and what is considered worthy of being recognized and how, have also historically been male-centric with men and their circumstances as being the default benchmark against which to weight and reward or recognize efforts. The mould is built for men by men.

Q. What motivated you to start the Women in Law Initiative? What challenges have you faced in these past ten years, and have any of those allowed the organization to grow further? Women in Law Initiative Pakistan was born out of the Women in Law Dialogue Series in
2016. This was a three part dialogue series under my initiative Lahore Education and Research Network but towards the end of the three panel talks, I realized that the issues that women had highlighted required consistent advocacy and engagement and that women also needed a platform to come together so l decided to commit to this cause and give it its own standing, thus what was set out to be a dialogue series, grew into an initiative and since past ten years we have been working on this cause and have remained committed to it. The challenges are severe of course like for any advocacy there is a lot of resistance to reform, change is not welcome and vested interests of stakeholders and those who benefit from status quo is a real challenge. There are other challenges related to shrinking civic and advocacy space, resource crunch and staying united in our shared struggles due to time and other constraints as women. These challenges have been valuable sources of learning that have helped shape our strategies and practices, and all experiences, good or bad, are helpful for learning; as long as you are learning, room for growth remains.

Socioeconomics of Law:
Q. How does economic inequality in Pakistan shape who gets access to legislative facilities and not? Do you think women suffer more because they are already marginalized by society?
I can speak for Pakistan and say that legislation is the domain of the parliament and women parliamentarians through their caucus have introduced several bills focused on rights of women, children and other marginalized groups even though there is this criticism about how we get women to the assemblies on reserved seats from political families and their clout. In that sense, political parties are not democratic within themselves for women from non-political class to share or have similar access to being able to legislate as the women from affluent political families. Yet even the women from these families who may have access face their own challenges and must really claim their space in assemblies and hold their ground at times. They don't get development funds on pretext of lack of constituencies, their representation in general election seats is also limited and subject to ticket allocation by parties which often does not even meet the flooring set in law so women from all classes, but more so from those who are at the margins have immense challenges in entering leadership roles.

Q. What roles do government policy or public investment play in expanding opportunities for women involved in the field of law and policy-making decisions?
Through the women in law initiative, we have been advocating for daycare centers in the courts, parental leave policies, anti-harassment committees and separate washrooms and ramps for women and differently abled persons. We have also been advocating for fair representation and bar election reforms that involves technological development. All of these things cost money and require political will. When the lawyers welfare and protection act was passed in 2023, it was disappointing to see how the idea of welfare was coined through a male-centric lens and did not address the idea of how a female lawyer would define welfare in the profession, so the bar leadership, the government and the parliamentarians and other stakeholders of course have a huge role in creating and expanding opportunities for women involved in the field of law and policy-making decisions.

 

Broader Reflections:
Q- For those unfamiliar with Pakistan's socio-economic and political landscape, what change would you like to see in the way the country is viewed on international platforms?
I would like for our country's judicial appointments system to be recognized as a credible system promoting and ensuring there is independence of judiciary, although, in current circumstances and especially since 26" and 27" constitutional amendments, this is unlikely to become a reality unless sincerely reformed.

Q- What changes or innovations would you like to see come through in the law industry?
I'd like law firms to be regulated more to ensure equal and fair allocation of work that can enable equal opportunities for growth of their associates and ensure them a basic living wage. I would like to see judicial appointments process being reformed with a gender and independence lens and I would absolutely insist on eliminating political party influence on our bar politics.

Q. Is there any specific issue that you would like to work on or are particularly passionate about?
Yes, I want to work on more data-based studies in different areas of law that we focus on to continue documenting gender disparity and doing our advocacy based on data.